I admired the movie, for all the reasons you mention and more. I also liked this article, and agree with most of what you say. My one caveat has to do with this:
"I realized that there is no “John Milton”, of course. There is no “Satan”, in the corporeal sense. This is a narrative device. The truth is that Evil lies in the heart of man."
You go on to write that Satan isn't real in the "corporeal" sense. I might somewhat agree with this, depending on your defintion of corporeal (and perhaps of "real", too). The problem is that the domain in which men make their judgments and choices is neither mapped nor mappable by scientific procedure, or even by reason more generally. The domain of consciousness and its transactions is essentially non-local. We can measure the effects, but not the causes.
So when we impose artificial limits on it, such as claiming that consciousness is inseparable from its particular material expression and structure, I think we risk falling into a very old trap. We are drawing a line we aren't qualified to draw, and at the same time rejecting nearly every human ancestral story and artistic insight in the process. If we take a step back, the notion that a mind -- including a malevolent, non-human mind -- cannot observe or think or feel without a specific and coherent body is an inversion of Christ's good news.
In other words, if we accept the concept of the intelligent, immortal, free-willed soul as real, and as a creature that endures after physical death, the notion that there cannot be other creatures without observable bodies stops making sense. Our reasons for thinking so may be mostly pure, as I believe Descartes' were mostly pure when he developed his theory of automata. But there is still a kind of hubris in it, and the fall could be very steep. Evil is a snake that dwells in the human heart, yes, meaning the bodies our conscious souls "possess" during life. But there are other snakes out there in the wild, which would very much like to evict us and take up residence.
Thanks for your comment Mark. I'm a fan of your writing!
If I understand correctly, I think you may have interpreted this as me espousing a Descartian model of reality- that without my particular "selfness" and "observation" nothing else exists.
I'm not quite so sure that is the case. That particular passage is one I was most worried about because it was difficult for me to explain what I was talking about without sounding like I was discounting the importance or validity of the idea of demons, or events like Christ's resurrection.
I suppose a better explanation is that I feel the opposite is most likely to be true: that there is a singular consciousness from which everything else emanates. The "self", as well as the material illusion is a veil which shrouds the truth of unity. This is sin itself, and why pride and vanity are among the chief sins.
I come to think in this way not unlike how matter itself appears to be a result of interfering "energy" fields, which is probably better described as "information". Zoom in close enough at the subatomic level and we do not see "stuff", but rather disruptions in the electromagnetic field- something that holds no "space" by our perception.
It's hard to explain, but I think I know what you're getting at, and I believe we are in agreement
That's why I think language is an important project. Alongside other important projects, sure. But it's still crirically important, because dissidents need to have some common tongue to fight effectively.
It is, and I sadly lack the eloquence to make the case more convicingly.
Case in point: I was anticipating someone pointing out my "hypocrisy" in condemning profanity while using "bad words" myself.
The word "profane", in my intent, refers to a "contempt of what is sacred", but this word has been morphed to mean "words that are merely rude in the cultural moment"
This is but one example of how language itself is used as a weapon. There are many others, of course.
The Tower of Babel may not have even been a parable about different languages, but of how a single language can be morphed and corrupted beyond comprehension
A useful framing device re your original point: for those who are reluctant to personify the capital-d Devil or demons as some kind of entity, then one can at least think of it as a sort of quasi-sentient "meme" (in the Dawkins sense) which are absorbed by a human mind and lead to self-destruction. This seems a useful approach to take with atheist or agnostics when talking about the topic of evil.
I also wanted to clarify that the existence of the material world is not itself a sin. Surely if we were created then we would need a place to exist. But what is a fault is mistaking this place for the entirety. For mistaking the material experience as all experience. For thinking our domain is the only one that matters.
Maybe thinking that we are God's only children is another trap we fall into...Timothy Alberino opened my eyes to this with his book and youtube series called Birthright.
You encapsulated the material and spiritual reality of the embrace of objective morality perfectly in a way that will resonate with many. Thank you for that.
Do you now have faith in Christ as the Son of God?
What do you think state of his body after he was resurrected? Do you believe he was able to be touched by the Apostles?
What do you think of his walking on water?
To me, if God has done the miracles claimed, along with creation of the material world, the idea that a separate, specific entity is "The Devil" isn't hard to accept. Or demons that can take on a form visible by material people.
I will say the Shroud of Turin provides interesting evidence, but I didn't come back to God that way. I came back to God by intuition, introspection, and whether I knew it or not, by praying. Maybe I wasn't praying in the traditional sense, but constantly asking for a sense of meaning.
So, if the New Testament is fiction it is still Truth?
And on that, do you realize the complexity and timelines it would take to "invent" the New Testament? Those odds are much smaller than it having happened.
It's only been fairly recently that even unfriendly critics even thought about saying it was writings that didn't cover a series of events in actual history.
I hope that you continue to seek God, his will, and the person of Christ and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. I wish you the best. My disagreement is not hate but only what I see as my duty.
I am not saying it's "fiction". I do have reason to believe in the historicity of the Gospels, but what I am saying is that the story itself is more important than arguing over the historicity of it. It shouldn't NEED verification. It speaks what is True, which is all the verification it needs.
Ye shall know them by their fruits.
A good example of this would be pedantic fussing about details in the LOTR (Why didn't they fly the Eagles to Mordor!) Instead of absorbing the very real Truths expressed in the legend.
Harrowing. I believe God will turn this all out for glory, good, truth, but in the middle of it all he asks we radically trust him. That's not easy! We need more help than we could ever know.
This was easily one of the best essays about the topic at hand I have had the pleasure of reading. To me as a Catholic convert over the past 20+ years, this Spiritual Warfare is as real as reality itself, & the stakes are much higher than they have been in any war fought on the physical plane. One of the best weapons I have found is the Examination of Conscience; used correctly, it holds up that mirror to yourself by making you actually think about the commandments you uphold or fail to uphold by falling into temptation & choosing the sinful option.
I look forward to more such essays from you in the future. Keep up the good work!
Thank you. I'm just a guy who thinks a lot about things and sometimes has to write them out to organize my thoughts. Glad to know it resonated with you! Of course you can keep it.
Watched a few more episodes. Have you noticed that the demon is always a white guy and not, say the black guy who is in a throuple with two lesbians who does horrible modern art?
And how every episode manages to shoehorn some "systematic racism" episode into every. Single. Episode?
This show is antiwhite, Godless trash posturing as phony Christianity.
I admired the movie, for all the reasons you mention and more. I also liked this article, and agree with most of what you say. My one caveat has to do with this:
"I realized that there is no “John Milton”, of course. There is no “Satan”, in the corporeal sense. This is a narrative device. The truth is that Evil lies in the heart of man."
You go on to write that Satan isn't real in the "corporeal" sense. I might somewhat agree with this, depending on your defintion of corporeal (and perhaps of "real", too). The problem is that the domain in which men make their judgments and choices is neither mapped nor mappable by scientific procedure, or even by reason more generally. The domain of consciousness and its transactions is essentially non-local. We can measure the effects, but not the causes.
So when we impose artificial limits on it, such as claiming that consciousness is inseparable from its particular material expression and structure, I think we risk falling into a very old trap. We are drawing a line we aren't qualified to draw, and at the same time rejecting nearly every human ancestral story and artistic insight in the process. If we take a step back, the notion that a mind -- including a malevolent, non-human mind -- cannot observe or think or feel without a specific and coherent body is an inversion of Christ's good news.
In other words, if we accept the concept of the intelligent, immortal, free-willed soul as real, and as a creature that endures after physical death, the notion that there cannot be other creatures without observable bodies stops making sense. Our reasons for thinking so may be mostly pure, as I believe Descartes' were mostly pure when he developed his theory of automata. But there is still a kind of hubris in it, and the fall could be very steep. Evil is a snake that dwells in the human heart, yes, meaning the bodies our conscious souls "possess" during life. But there are other snakes out there in the wild, which would very much like to evict us and take up residence.
Thanks for your comment Mark. I'm a fan of your writing!
If I understand correctly, I think you may have interpreted this as me espousing a Descartian model of reality- that without my particular "selfness" and "observation" nothing else exists.
I'm not quite so sure that is the case. That particular passage is one I was most worried about because it was difficult for me to explain what I was talking about without sounding like I was discounting the importance or validity of the idea of demons, or events like Christ's resurrection.
I suppose a better explanation is that I feel the opposite is most likely to be true: that there is a singular consciousness from which everything else emanates. The "self", as well as the material illusion is a veil which shrouds the truth of unity. This is sin itself, and why pride and vanity are among the chief sins.
I come to think in this way not unlike how matter itself appears to be a result of interfering "energy" fields, which is probably better described as "information". Zoom in close enough at the subatomic level and we do not see "stuff", but rather disruptions in the electromagnetic field- something that holds no "space" by our perception.
It's hard to explain, but I think I know what you're getting at, and I believe we are in agreement
I suppose a more succinct way of putting it is to say we walk in the dreamscape of something that we cannot fathom
It is really hard to put into words, isn't it?
That's why I think language is an important project. Alongside other important projects, sure. But it's still crirically important, because dissidents need to have some common tongue to fight effectively.
It is, and I sadly lack the eloquence to make the case more convicingly.
Case in point: I was anticipating someone pointing out my "hypocrisy" in condemning profanity while using "bad words" myself.
The word "profane", in my intent, refers to a "contempt of what is sacred", but this word has been morphed to mean "words that are merely rude in the cultural moment"
This is but one example of how language itself is used as a weapon. There are many others, of course.
The Tower of Babel may not have even been a parable about different languages, but of how a single language can be morphed and corrupted beyond comprehension
A useful framing device re your original point: for those who are reluctant to personify the capital-d Devil or demons as some kind of entity, then one can at least think of it as a sort of quasi-sentient "meme" (in the Dawkins sense) which are absorbed by a human mind and lead to self-destruction. This seems a useful approach to take with atheist or agnostics when talking about the topic of evil.
Yes, good point amd kind of what I was getting at
I also wanted to clarify that the existence of the material world is not itself a sin. Surely if we were created then we would need a place to exist. But what is a fault is mistaking this place for the entirety. For mistaking the material experience as all experience. For thinking our domain is the only one that matters.
Maybe thinking that we are God's only children is another trap we fall into...Timothy Alberino opened my eyes to this with his book and youtube series called Birthright.
Interesting. Well, if we take Scripture, we aren't the only ones. Angels, nephalim, etc were there before us
G.K. Chesterton.
You encapsulated the material and spiritual reality of the embrace of objective morality perfectly in a way that will resonate with many. Thank you for that.
Do you now have faith in Christ as the Son of God?
What do you think state of his body after he was resurrected? Do you believe he was able to be touched by the Apostles?
What do you think of his walking on water?
To me, if God has done the miracles claimed, along with creation of the material world, the idea that a separate, specific entity is "The Devil" isn't hard to accept. Or demons that can take on a form visible by material people.
I will say the Shroud of Turin provides interesting evidence, but I didn't come back to God that way. I came back to God by intuition, introspection, and whether I knew it or not, by praying. Maybe I wasn't praying in the traditional sense, but constantly asking for a sense of meaning.
He gave an answer to me.
I have faith that Christ is the Son of God, because what he says is True.
Did these events literally take place in history 2000 years ago?
I don't know.
I guess my point is that whether it is mythological legend or history doesn't really matter because it is True with a capital T.
So, if the New Testament is fiction it is still Truth?
And on that, do you realize the complexity and timelines it would take to "invent" the New Testament? Those odds are much smaller than it having happened.
It's only been fairly recently that even unfriendly critics even thought about saying it was writings that didn't cover a series of events in actual history.
I hope that you continue to seek God, his will, and the person of Christ and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. I wish you the best. My disagreement is not hate but only what I see as my duty.
I am not saying it's "fiction". I do have reason to believe in the historicity of the Gospels, but what I am saying is that the story itself is more important than arguing over the historicity of it. It shouldn't NEED verification. It speaks what is True, which is all the verification it needs.
Ye shall know them by their fruits.
A good example of this would be pedantic fussing about details in the LOTR (Why didn't they fly the Eagles to Mordor!) Instead of absorbing the very real Truths expressed in the legend.
I understand your point but disagree with it.
Thank you brother, I really needed to read this, this morning!
Harrowing. I believe God will turn this all out for glory, good, truth, but in the middle of it all he asks we radically trust him. That's not easy! We need more help than we could ever know.
This was easily one of the best essays about the topic at hand I have had the pleasure of reading. To me as a Catholic convert over the past 20+ years, this Spiritual Warfare is as real as reality itself, & the stakes are much higher than they have been in any war fought on the physical plane. One of the best weapons I have found is the Examination of Conscience; used correctly, it holds up that mirror to yourself by making you actually think about the commandments you uphold or fail to uphold by falling into temptation & choosing the sinful option.
I look forward to more such essays from you in the future. Keep up the good work!
Thanks Jim. I post... infrequently but maybe my resolution will be to do more writing and less doomscrolling
Who the hell are you? My God I have not read anything so stark real and true in my entire life.
I got hints of this truth in the book People Of The Lie..in malachi Martin's books....
But this elegantly written and soul stirring expose explains it all....
And perfectly explains Solzhenitsyns "the line seperating good and evil.......runs through the human heart."
Thank you from the bottom of mine.
Bless you and keep you..and may I keep this?
Thank you. I'm just a guy who thinks a lot about things and sometimes has to write them out to organize my thoughts. Glad to know it resonated with you! Of course you can keep it.
Thank you, this was illuminating. Have you also seen the film Nefarious, and if so, what did you think of it?
I haven't! I will check it out
Watched a few more episodes. Have you noticed that the demon is always a white guy and not, say the black guy who is in a throuple with two lesbians who does horrible modern art?
And how every episode manages to shoehorn some "systematic racism" episode into every. Single. Episode?
This show is antiwhite, Godless trash posturing as phony Christianity.
Hm. Maybe I'll give it another shot, it just seemed like boomerslop